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Monday, August 29th 2005

12:03 AM

WILD THING RACEWAY - THE AFTERMATH

Photos are uploading....

Great racing by everybody, just a pity there were so many accidents and breakdowns!

Which brings us to a thought; and that is how difficult it must be for a newcomer to get involved. The skill levels increase with every event and the track gets more difficult also. The Western Province ATV club have come up with a novel idea to get new riders involved. I have posted it as a comment. What do you think?

243 Comment(s).

Posted by wpatv:

MotoCross News


Intermediate/Enduro Quad Class for Motocross
The Concept
We want to bring guys into the MX fold that do not want to compete with the experienced MX riders, but still want to have the thrill and enjoyment of competing in a MX event with people of a similar capability.

The class is called an “Intermediate/Enduro Quad Class”, but its purpose is to provide a platform for guys who want to learn about riding MX with the hope of moving up into the Senior class at some stage

Entry Criteria
1. You can not enter this class if you are an existing regular MX rider (You know who you are).
2. You race enduro’s only because you are unsure of what MX holds for you
3. You want to get into MX even though you have not competed in any race prior to this
4. You have raced MX at some stage but were so intimidated by the experienced riders that you have never returned.
5. You want to learn how to race MX, so that at some stage you can move up to the senior level.

Rider Honesty
This class is designed to encourage guys to come and race MX who have never considered it before or did not enjoy racing with the top guys. However we don’t want to encourage trophy hunters so we ask that you be honest with yourself and your fellow riders and only enter this class if you know and feel that you will not be competitive in the senior event.

We really are going to rely on your honesty and genuine interest in growing this class into one that will start to feed the senior races and possibly increase the race entries in the senior class above 1 MX slot during Club and Regional MX events.

Hop Up
“Ok so what happens if I arrive and absolutely STREAK everyone in this class? “ - I hear you ask. Well it’s quite simple. This is the first race of this sort and we don’t want to stifle it with too many rules. But there must be a couple laid-down if we want this class to thrive and flourish. So we have devised a simple rating system for guys ridinriding in this class to ensure that the racing stays competitive throughout the 20 slots.

1. After each event the committee will compare and evaluate every individuals lap times as well as final results and compare this with the lap times of the main event.
2. Riders whose lap/race times would place them above the bottom third of the normal MX riders will automatically be asked to enter the senior race next time. We really want to ensure that we keep the competitiveness of this class as close as possible and want to at the same time be feeding the main event with new talent.
3. Let’s be honest, if you are better than the bottom 3rd of the main event, with just a little bit more practice you could be mixing it up with the big guys. And that’s exactly what we want.

In Conclusion

We will form a small committee to discuss this class after this first event and this will also ensure that we get varied opinions on decisions and rulings. Please contact me if you are keen to get involved with this.

We want to ensure that this class not only grows in its own right but that it really grows the main events field, and ultimately allows us to negotiate more race slots per meeting for the senior quads.

Can you imagine if this class grows to such an extent that we would be able to have 2 main events and still maintain an Enduro class. WOW that would be nearly 60 quads per event, and ultimately that’s what we want to achieve: numbers at MX increasing to the same numbers we are starting to generate at Enduro’s.

Some come on all you budding MX riders, get your entries in, and start preparing for an awesome race on the 27th and hopefully the start of a genuine “SCHOOL OF MX”
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 12:10 AM

Posted by Andrew:

I think it a briliant idea, we need to just work out the logistics
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 3:44 AM

Posted by normanb:

Great idea, but we will run out of time unless we split quads from Tweelies or split all the juniors off onto another track.
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 3:47 AM

Posted by clive:

We finished early enough yesterday to have had another class; daylight is getting longer and maybe the racing will be split next year?....
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 3:49 AM

Posted by Gys:

Yes , split the quads and two-wheelers , but the juniors want to ride the same track. The days of juniors riding 200 m around a track and everybody is happy with the "wonderfull" racing had thankfully passed. Look what happened to Carousal that did not want juniors to ride there. Most of the senior quads have juniors in a brother , sister , son or daughter that is also riding.So if your kid can't ride there , you rather go to anoher track that do accomadate both of you.
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 3:52 AM

Posted by Dave:

Please keep the vets ladies revo class that was awesome racing & well done you ladies
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 4:38 AM

Posted by normanb:

By another track, I would suggest at the same venue at the same time. Just a problem if Dad/Mom and junior are racing at the same time. Jnr= Stock 100cc and less.

I'd need to invest in R2k more memory space on the camera, a spare quad with cooler box because I rely on the tweely gaps to download, feed and check the kids quad for the next race.

Actually the seperate track was a bad idea. I would miss pics of races that clashed with my kids, the kids would miss some important races unless Junior quads raced when senior tweelies were up and vise versa.

Hello summer. More day light. Keep the tweelies.
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 5:29 AM

Posted by Wynand:

How about the following for next season.
50cc stock 4 to 6 yrs
80 and 100cc stock 6 to 8 yrs (one class)
100cc mod 8 to 12 yrs
200cc stock 12 to 16 yrs
200cc mod 13 yrs and up
Open stock 16 to 18 yrs
Open quads 18 yrs and up
Open Ladies 16 yrs and up
Open Seniors 40 yrs and up

Something like this might just make quad racing bigger,Better and more affordable for everybody. One more question , How fast do WE as PARENTS want our babies to go? Not a lot of specials on wheelchairs and crutches going around!
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 11:28 AM

Posted by normanb:

A Promise

On Sunday I promised my son that if he is racing in the Stock 100cc class (or any stock class) next season, he will not have to race against any modified quads.

The lack of response to my initial REVO issues post was interesting and subsequent conversations with complete strangers have confirmed my suspicions. Apparently the mods started off relatively innocuous, but once everyone had started on the path, there was no turning back. (Stones and glass houses stuff)

Only once new stock quads entered the fray, was the speed differential really noticeable. This week one of the stock quads was seen with its engine and silencer open at a well known shop. The person who saw this was knowledgeable enough to be able to understand what was being done.

Given that this quad was competitive, one could assume that a stock Revo out of the box would only compete favorably with other makes. You will recall that I predicted that the stock Revo that was thumped by a Dinli recently, would be miraculously healed. You be the judge.

Now, 'sneaky' mods that keep the appearance of stock, are apparently not that expensive, and they do get speeds up to respectable levels. I would not be opposed to joining that race as long as it was above board.

Having made the Promise to my kid, I will put my money where my mouth is next season. It would be petty of us to disturb a season that we joined late where the main contenders have competed on a level footing. If anyone can convince me that I am wrong in my deductions, I will buy a Revo tomorrow.

Actually it seems we just need to run in the Official Modded Class. Anyone with 3 finishes can get onto the podium. How cruel is it to sacrifice reliability to such a degree that the quad breaks and your kid just has to watch the whole field pass him by?

A closing thought. Lets assume that my deductions are correct and even just 1 stock 100cc has been modded. The parents have paid for it; 'reputable' shops have done the mods and knowingly have the kid racing in their colours. Fellow competitors and their parents know and apparently the general racing public without a stake in the race know. Oh yes, the little rider knows as well.

No more from me on this for this season. I hope that someone can in fact show me that I have jumped to the wrong conclusions in this matter, but so far I have only got support.
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 10:06 PM

Posted by normanb:

Wynand, I think you are onto something. I'd just like to see a junior (4-18) being able to race stock from 50cc to open without the having to join the cheque book race.

I'd also hate to lose the serious LEMs. I think that they are breeding awesome little riders for the future.
Monday, August 29th 2005 @ 11:38 PM

Posted by clive:

I think the vets, stepup or not, lived up to their pre-race hype and jibes with some hectic racing! Unfortunately for me I could not watch the last heat but 1 & 2 were outstanding. Well done guys. This site will always take the Mickey out of you, but always with plenty envy.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 12:05 AM

Posted by Dave:

I must take my hat off to Eugene on saturday we went to the track & on his second attempt he did the s/up (and at the same time my jaw droped)The most amazing part about this feat is that he is turning 65 on wednesday happy birthday Eugene
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 12:32 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Norman, I dont think people really know how much this costs I have 5 riders competing in 6 classes and next year it will be 7 classes. I am realy getting sick and tired of the racing it seems that we haven't got a system, rules are being written to suit specific riders and parents keep on cheating, doesn't sound like fun anymore! I for one don't want to be one of those overbearing parents anymore I will never cheat to win and I dispise anybody who does and they know who they are. The cheque book race seems to be a great concern for some so yes let's punt the stock class or are we going to keep our racing exclusive and not let any of the thousands of standard 450's,400's 660's and whatever else join in our fun, or hang on! we just might let them join us in 2007 or 2008 just hope we havent killed the sport by then.
That is all from me aswell on this matter.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 1:03 AM

Posted by eugene:

ok dave.i,ve kept quiet for long enough.yes i,m 65 jumping the s/up and the double which you at 21 still can,t do.however what must be more embarressing for you is the fact that i did it on a std revo.as the bet went you owe me big.i got the hole shot(mr kruger)without braking and wouter on a 90 cc viper was close on my heels.we even crossed the line ahead of you lot.shame on all of you. wynand we have been talking stock classes this whole year already so as to entice more riders/racers to the sport.the time is now--- to stop talking and implement these rules before the start of next season.get the riders/officials together now.msa aswell if necessary.lets just do it.track owners must also now come on board with this.keep the modified classes only with 200 o16 blasters and 017 4 strokes.toppies dont worry about as proven above a std revo is good enough. wynand-- you got the grootest bek so we vote that you iniate the above
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 1:10 AM

Posted by clive:

Ok, this thread was not meant for this discussion, but now it is. Let me bust a fallacy or 2 here.
1. Top speed on a stock 450 is about 120. Top speed on a modified 450 is the same. You just get there quicker. Now the fact is that a modified 450 will be safer and doing 120 on a stock 450 is looking for trouble.
2. Up to a certain class the emphasis is on fun, for parents and rider. After that riders have other goals. they are perhaps trying to make a name for themselves or carve out a career or whatever, but the point is they want to win. The goals are very different from beginners and very different from youngsters.
The rules are trying to cater for both, as well as the tracks. It is to be expected that the rules and class structures and tracks will never satisfy everyone. It would also be pointless attracting scores of new competitors while at the same time losing our aces, hotshots call them what you will.
Put this way, if you were to tell my son he can now only ride a stock 450 he would take up chess, after knocking you out with a wheel spanner.

The idea proposed by WPATV puts the emphasis on rider instead of machine. Riders who have not come up through the ranks would prefer to ride against similarly skilled riders and their idea embraces this. Class structures will never ever ever satisfy everybody, and nor will their idea. But it does avoid the conflict rather elegantly, I thought.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 1:29 AM

Posted by Dave:

I agree with Eugene,let's all stop moaning & implement this thing (good,great,excelent idea etc will not help)Let's set a time & a date.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 1:39 AM

Posted by eugene:

clive---- for once you are missing the point.stock bikes for the less fortunate parents who cant afford to mod their bikes.open modified for those who can,so kyle wont race the stock class and wont hit me with a wheel spanner.i re-emphasise,the time is now to change the rules
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 1:58 AM

Posted by clive:

Eugene I am only partially missing the point. I do not want to see anybody racing a stock anything over 200cc because they are simply too fast for what the rest of the machine is capable of. You would also be talking about relatively inexperienced riders who might not have learnt more judicious use of the thumb. I was also referring to Wouter's proposal of Open quads only 18years and over.

But, my understanding that all discussions regarding class structures are fruitless at this stage because it has already been finalized(?). I trust everyone put their ideas on the IDTCC feedback forms
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 2:08 AM

Posted by eugene:

clive.what has been finalised and where can this info be obtained.who was party to whatever has been finalised.excuse the ignorance.as far as stock anything is concerned,what modifications are you referring to.ie spacers(not again)suspension(costs a fortune)cams etc.obviously the safety side can be looked,but again---where do you draw the line where costs are concerned for the needy and not so fortunate
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 2:27 AM

Posted by Dave:

Who is running the show at the moment msa,idtcc ?? I would like to know how a 50cc bike can be allowed to enter the 85cc class? I've been told that an 85cc motor has now been installed in the bike & that was that - end of discussion. When did this happen and how many races did this bike compete as a 50cc in a 85cc class (points).A LT 80 weighs +/- 90 kg a lem +/- 50 kg. My point is, when a kid finishes 3/4 of a lap before the rest, it is a fairly pointless race. I'm not saying the kid isn't a good rider, he is, but not to be that far ahead at every race - none of the 85's can come close. Would it then be worth riding in the 85cc class next year? (Maybe if we had a committee these type of issues could be addressed)
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 3:41 AM

Posted by eugene:

well said dave.haven,t had a reply from clive re these rules that have already been set and by whom and by what vote/authority
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 4:09 AM

Posted by eugene:

nb---- glad i dont have small kids racing in those classes.the polotics are frightening
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 4:10 AM

Posted by clive:

Let me tread as softly as I can here .
Rules and regs for all types of racing developed over a period of time. Quad track racing is new and we in fact are all part of the rule developing process, along with the clubs, track owners and organizers. I assume that rules and regs will similarly develope over time.

At the end of last year, Pierre led the approach to MSA for a BIGGER championship to bring recognition for you and your children. for an organized championship outside of club constraints there had to be a set of common rules. These were drawn up with a little consultation.

As a result of various voices the IDTCC Committe felt that all our input and opinions were needed before the things could be put in place for 2006. We were then all given feedback forms to assist them in finding a route that would keep most of us happy. Now that meeting with MSA was held in August, so I am assuming the class structure issues are finalized.

Club racing and IDTCC are two seperate things, but it would be hugely confusing it the two did not follow the same rules and regs.

Lastly, it is not encumbent now, nor will it ever be, on the organizers to police whether quads are within the class limitations. If a competitor has reason to believe a quad is "illegal", it is up to him to protest (on payment of a fee, R250 according to MSA handbook) that quad and have it stripped and checked.

I have been promised a copy of the rules for posting on the site as soon as it is finalised; I don't have it yet so I assume they are adding finishing touches.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 5:12 AM

Posted by clive:

I think you can take it as given that next spacers will be allowed on a stock class. They received enough feedback on this and everybody feels the same. Other than that I would assume stock also allows jetting (new bikes and quads are jetted for sea level) but I can't see how any other changes can be regarded as "stock"
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 5:23 AM

Posted by eugene:

clive --thanks but treading softly seems to be the order of the day here.WHY is everyone so scared to tackle the problem/perceived problem head on.where are the results of the opinon forms that were handed out at alkmaar and what were the suggestions put forward by the riders and how much of that was implemented.i hope this is not some BIG SECRET and that the criticisims---- if any--- wern,t taken out of context.lets be as transparent as jacob zuma --why dont we
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 5:26 AM

Posted by clive:

No, I am treading softly lest I give the impression that I know something that I dont, my bek is big! "lets be as transparent as jacob zuma "
Since we started this site in November last year we have begged for opinions on just about every matter. Very little was forthcoming, so it is great that we are shedding a typical SA attitude of just letting things happen. But in all fairness to the few that are trying to drive this thing; they need help more than criticism and thats how I try to approach it. Your last comment, Eugene, contains 5 questions and I don't have the answer to any of them as I too am on the outside looking in.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 5:50 AM

Posted by Dave:

Normanb thanks for the great photos once again, we all appreciate your time & effort.Eugene stop hitting your head against a brick wall you're giving me a headache.Hopefully something will be done (my 2 cents worth)
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 7:42 AM

Posted by Dave:

It's quite amazing how little riders we have,i can count them all on one hand.Are they all sitting on the fence i hope it's not an electric fence
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 8:07 AM

Posted by clive:

Ah, I see you are beginning to get the picture
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 8:16 AM

Posted by eugene:

clive and dave.also my last word on this matter.yes it would appear that we are hitting our heads against a brick wall.all the groot bekke at alkmaar with their great ideas and committment to changing the sport for the better have all but disappeared.like you said dave---sitting on the fence.CLIVE,NO ONE IS CRITICISING,merley trying to assure that this great sport doesn,t die in the future as did formula m racing did in the late 80,s---only because chq books took over. i will also be joining the rest and let things happen.as it is my daugther wont race because there is not a class for her.diane will only do the oval(because shes not prepared to get taken out by the youngsters).i dont know if i will do the inland because i,m also old and useless.lee,s now doing freestyle and craigs no longer interested.so thats a possible 5 people no longer racing.some might say good riddence.bye bye now.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 8:23 AM

Posted by Dave:

Eugene you are not old & useless you are a bloody good rider & to lose you from this sport would be a shame.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 9:01 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Eugene I know I have a groot bek but unfortunately I have no say in this matter. If you look and listen to my reasoning around modified and stock classes and you look at my riders you wil realize that they will not benifit from any of my sugestions, my reasons are not peronal it is merely a belief that we must get more bums on quads on race tracks. At the rate we are going now we will never get any media exposure or competition sponsorships nevermind rider sponsorships. I come from a broadcasting background and I can asure you that with our current status and competitor quantity we will have to to be content to watch the odd US quad race on ESPN. I believe that by introducing a stock class for every mod class from 100cc up and resticting the age groups we will build a better quality rider and we will get plenty new talent which in turn will generate more income which in turn will create better facilities which in turn will draw more spectators which in turn will generate more income and trigger sponsor interest which in turn will generate more income and I can go on, or we can stop it all because MY kid won't be happy or benifit from it. I apreciate the work and efford that some people are putting into this sport and I apologise if they feel that I am critisising I gave my input for the rules and regs, a lot of hearsay is going around but I just have a bad feeling that Clive is right the rules and regs have been finalised and our inputs were filed in file 13. Would like to know what the ruling on gate sharing is for next year!
AND THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 9:10 AM

Posted by clive:

Wynand I hear what you are saying. But I really do feel that the are many mid teenagers and older that would like to race but do not, not primarily because of cost, but also because they are intimidated by the skills of the existing riders and the difficulty levels of the tracks. Thats why I like the WPATV idea so much. My thoughts and feelings come from speaking to those who dont race. Your youngsters are ok, they are groomed and growing with the sport. Newcomers around the 15 to 18 year old mark have a huge problem. Nobody enjoys getting humiliated on the track for a year or more, before his skills are up to scratch.

In support of my view I offer the score sheets; check how many people came once, then never again. Check how many came twice, then never again. In the Open classes you are talking about 60%!!! Now I "patrol" the starting grid and I can tell you most of those guys came with some exotic quads; far more than what my lad comes with!

We are essentially saying the same thing, only our ideas regarding the solution differ.
And tannie Eugene is just full of nonsense; some people are just part of the scene, like him. Eugene, you dont race to win, you race for fun and to talk crap with your mates and to make their eyes stretch every now and again. That doesnt change.

All sports need thinking people, but more importantly they need those people to say what they are thinking. You don't see immediate results, but saying what you think in a sensible way keeps those that do make decisions on their toes and reminds them of their responsibilities towards us all.

We masses (4) have given a day of our time bashing these ideas around on a public forum. A day. Should we now already be despondent and give up on shaping this thing?
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 10:03 AM

Posted by MIKE:

Thanks Normb for the super pics.That was my boy on the lead revo over the jump,he had to change his jocks after the race,and me,I took a cold beer 4 the nerves.
On a more serious note,I agree with the ideas,especially about how fast we want our babies to go.I am all for stock classes,which would see a lot of new great talent coming into the sport,and skill instead of cheque books talking.Pierre is trying his best to limit speed,enticing more rider talent,by the changes he has made to the track.I am sure further track changes will be to encourage skill instead of speed(cheque books).
I sent in my IDTCC suggestions.One of my ideas,was to ban full import race bikes.There has been so much said about the money spent on mod revos,well you have"nt seen anything yet.There is a few full race spec Dinlis being imported at a astronomical cost.The point is,we are killing the class due to costs to stay competitive and our kids are not even riding to the level the mod revos can already offer.You only have to look at the entries to see how many riders we have,last year we used to have 18 - 22 riders on a club day,now we have 8 - 10 max on a club day.aINLAND day is no better.I am sure this in its self tells you that the 100 mod class is in big danger.I have timed my kids on their blasters and mod revos,and the lap times are the same.Do we really want our kids to go faster?
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 10:44 AM

Posted by Roy:

Great to see contributions to make the sport better. I agree with most of Wynand's class suggestions, but would like to see the following changes/additions.
Open stock class for 13Yrs - 17Yrs.
Open stock class for 18Yrs and over.
Open ladies stock for 13Yrs - 17Yrs.
Open ladies stock for 18Yrs and above.
Open seniors to be 38 and above.

We need to encourage young stars to still compete competively while attracting a larger segment of the quad fraternity to race days.
Classes for ladies have largely been negleted in the past and not all ladies are at top level.
All these classes will result in race days being longer, and hence splitting of Tweelies and Quads may be required.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 11:15 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Mike don't worry about full import race Dinli's the Yanks don't race 100cc's our bikes will eat them for breakfast and our kids will kick their buts, don't forget we ride big tracks with real jumps and straights they ride mini tracks, tight yes, ok Wildthing is tight at the moment but still pretty fast so go-cart wheels at the back won't work. Who ever is buying these bikes good luck it will cost about $1999 plus shipping and VAT. You will look at about R30 000-00 plus to land it and then LOT'S to get it up to scratch.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 7:34 PM

Posted by Wynand:

Roy Panado does not really work for the headace but if you stop banging your head you might be accused of being "draadsitters" or typical South African's. At least some of those who pays the bills agree on issues unfortunately we won't see them streemlined and in practice(I think).
I wonder if the scoring for next season will be as brutal as for this one?
THAT IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT!
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 7:53 PM

Posted by BRIAN BOMBER:

The wpatv idea is great, they had a total of 18 odd competitors on the line the weekend, and holeshot money for that class was R1000.00. and the Quadpro/Kenda Tyres sponsored a trophy for rider of the day which was huge,other sponsors donated prizes,which made this class the probably the most worth while.The next mx event is 10 sept.Some of you should really try to attend,but be warned,you must be fit and they are extremely fast and furious down there.
Tuesday, August 30th 2005 @ 10:49 PM

Posted by Gys:

I have not been able to go on the net, so I'm responding from the top. If I step on someone’s toes you at least know from who it is.
Clive, excellent idea with the "Intermediate/Enduro Quad Class". Problem: Rider honesty. Unfortunately people will do anything to win , even undeservingly.
On Wynand's classes. Very good idea, and not far off. But, do you really expect the parents and riders that do not fall in those classes to retrofit their bikes now? What about the under 16’s, most of them are up there with the big boy’s, must they pay money now to go back to standard?
NormanB - You knew about a bike that was not inside the specs and did not protest it ????? I have said this before: my big problem with everybody that makes accusations of cheating and is moaning behind the other competitors back,

PUT YOU MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

The system is in place that such a competitor will be harshly penalised if caught.

But he must be PROTESTED. So if you knew about this bike, and did not protest, ???????

Now everybody wants to ride "stock classes". Imagine the bithcing and moaning and accusations next year.

Wynand, if you know who is cheating, refer to above.

Clive, the classes have not being finalized. The rules and regulations is a process. It is not only 1 or 2 people that make the rules. We don’t want to repeat the same mistakes that happened this year. Everybody's input was noticed, but if you must starting writing rules according to all the feedback forms, it will be thicker than an encyclopaedia. Where there were 3or5 guys with the same idea, it was looked at more than just 1 guy with an "idea".

Dave, about the"50cc" in the 85cc class. Refer to above if you think it is a 50cc then he loses all his points for the year.

There's your option, it is your call to use it or not.

Spacer issue again. Isn’t stock as from the shop? The safety aspect everybody will ask? Must the driver not learn to drive safely with-in the class and limi
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 1:11 AM

Posted by Gys:

Must the rider not learn to drive with-in the class and limitations of that class?

Eugene, what part do you want to be transparent? Here is the process how the rules are made.
1. The rules of this year were taken as the starting point.
2. All the feedback we received were taken into account, and like I mentioned earlier, if relevant and not only 1 person.
3. The new rules in conjunction with track owners, clubs and organisers were submitted to MSA for feedback and to check that we did not implement stupid ideas and everything is still correct under MSA general racing rules. That is were we are on the moment.
4. When feedback from MSA is received, the rules will be posted and distributed for discussion. If a few people have a problem with a rule, it will be discussed, and if valid, changed.

Please just remember 1 thing, rules can't accommodate everybody, which is the reason why it is called a rule.

And Eugene, we have not disappeared, but if we go hastily into this again, we will have the same problems and discussions again next year. At least I'm a grootbek, which is trying to do something. Not just one opening it.

Mike, no offence, and my boy is not getting one of those bikes, but how can you tell a person what bike to ride and what not. Then you want to implement this rule to benefit your own pocket. For interesting sake, it is not $1999 , it is about $8500 before shipping.

Wynand, how do you mean brutal? I personally self think the scoring was not fair towards the winners this year. 6 points between 1st and 4th. Not enough reward according to me ?

I hope I did give some clarity on some of the problems and did not step on to many toes.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 1:13 AM

Posted by Dave:

Gys regarding the 85cc & 50cc the point is there is a 40Kg weight factor, the only way to overcome this problem is to put a 110cc motor into the LT 80. What i am trying to say is the 85cc class should have bikes with the same weight factor,as i said before when the first rider over the line is 3/4 of a lap in front what is the point of that race,if it carrys on there will only be 1 rider in that class next year.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 1:46 AM

Posted by Gys:

Dave , point taken , and I agree with you in the sense that the bike must have the same specs.But you can't penalise a rider for a faster or lighter bike . The problem was that it was not specified in the beggining of the year. That is why we are taking our time for this rules , to try to sort such technical stuff out.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 1:55 AM

Posted by TANIA:

TO ALL THE KIDS. PLEASE!!! ENJOY THE SPORT. THE MOMENT YOUR PARENTS CAUSE YOU NOT TO LIKE THE SPORT ANYMORE PLEASE CONTACT ME AT mydadisanidiot@iwant2stop.co.za. PLEASE GIVE JILL,PIERRE AND GYS ALL THE SUPPORT TO MAKE THIS SPORT BETTER BUT BE CONSTRUCTIVE. JARRED PLEASE KICK ASS ON YOUR 85 CC QUAD SEEING THE PEOPLE ASKED YOU TO CHANGE YOUR BIKE TO A 85 CC:P
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 2:05 AM

Posted by Goigen:

wot else did u expect from a new venture in its first year, obviously there were gonna be hiccups. i say good job to those who are taking all the brunt and to those adding constructive input for wot looks like gonna be exciting year next year!
wen i have kids they will definitely ride for the fun
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 2:14 AM

Posted by Jill - Wildthing Raceway:

My husband owns a track - works his butt off to promote this sport he loves,takes nothing but major flak.
My kid has a 50cc Dinli and have you ever seen him anywhere near the start line on a race day ?? The answer is a big and simple NO and the reason - I won't subject my son to all the petty self serving parents out there - you have no idea what we see and hear. NOT NICE.
To me the whole idea of sport is ENJOYMENT.
Till I see kids and parents enjoy this sport there is no way he will be allowed to race.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 2:47 AM

Posted by normanb:

Gys,

Welcome back!

We have come into the season too late to worry about upsetting the apple cart. All of my comments are in the open and my future actions are known, so there will be no surprises next year.

The kids who are running up front of the stock 100cc do not deserve to be drawn into anything unpleasant (whether I am right or wrong, it will be unpleasant).

They are racing their hearts out and are on levels terms with each other.

New season, clean slate. No kids hurt. If we'd been involved from the beiginning of the season, I'd like to believe that I would have protested immediately had I suspected anything. If the quads did evolve over time, I could well have joined the gang.

So lets enjoy the rest of the season no matter where the kids finish and decide which classes we will enter next year.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 4:05 AM

Posted by Dave:

Be constructive???? mymomisanidiot@icanthelpit.co.za
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 4:23 AM

Posted by TANIA:

DAVE

NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU. CHECK THE KIDS OUT ON A RACE DAY. THEY ALL GET ALONG WELL AND THE FATHERS CAN'T WAIT TO SMASH EACH OTHER ON A SUNDAY NIGHT WHEN THEY GET HOME. DADS, SORRY FOR MY COMMENT IF ANY ONE FEEL OFFENDED (ARE YOU GUILTY?)BUT PLEASE MAKE IT ENJOYABLE FOR YOUR KIDS. THIS IS A FAMILY SPORT THAT WE ALL WANT TO ENJOY DO NOT SPOIL IT FOR YOUR WHOLE FAMILY. dietannieissorry@donttakeitpersonal.co.za
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:08 AM

Posted by Gys:

Dave ,
Dont get personal now.

If the shoe fits , put it on.

I'm married to mymomisanidiot@icanthelpit.co.za. What does that make me ? Someone with an idea for my e-mail adress ?
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:17 AM

Posted by TANIA:

dadisgoingtogetlucky@mymomshouse.co.za
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:20 AM

Posted by eugene:

viscious comments today.self serving parents and idiots etc.KEEP IT LITE AND CONSTRUCTIVE GUYS. jill i take it from your comment that you COULD agree with roy on the age restriction on 50 cc STOCK QUADS.----- knowing pierre is a track owner---what does he think on the various proposals, that are ultimatley going to bring more riders to wildthing which is what we want-and--to keep the sport alive
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:24 AM

Posted by Gys:

Like that one
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:24 AM

Posted by normanb:

Hehehehehehe@quadmx.co.za
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:25 AM

Posted by Dave:

Tania

I am not a sore looser or whiner whether my kid comes first or last in a race, it does not matter (we all hope for a first)The kids that race the lems are very good riders i am not denying that. I just feel there should be a level playing field.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:28 AM

Posted by Goigen:

and we wonder why people leave the racing scene
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 5:55 AM

Posted by Dave:

Gys

You guys are doing a good job & no you cant have my e-mail addresse: mydadisanidiot@andhewontgetlucky.co.za

And Clive a will have to sue you for lack of income,i have now become a full time internet junkie
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 6:26 AM

Posted by Cathy:

Tania,Gys,Jill & Pierre
Thanks for all your hard work!!
You guys have a tough job!
Well done!!!!
Re: Lems
Lems are designed for racing albeit with a 50cc, 72cc or an 80cc engine hence the weight!
LT 80's were not designed specifically for racing.
Someone pinch me! I thought we were racing!!!!!
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 6:30 AM

Posted by Gys:

Dave , would buy it from you
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 6:34 AM

Posted by Dave:

Gys

Only if you buy me a beer at the next race ,you can have it
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 6:53 AM

Posted by Gys:

Deal
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 6:57 AM

Posted by Dave:

Cathy why did you not tell me before i bought a Lt 80's' that they are not designed for racing?? I should have bought a lem.How much will i get for my Lt 80's & where can i buy a lem ,do you perhaps know who imports them
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 8:08 AM

Posted by dnanyW:

.yaw ym ti od elbanosaer eb s'lrig dna s'yuG no emoC
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 8:49 AM

Posted by Dave:

Who speaks klingon (star trek)

My wife say's that i must stop causing so much k*k & she is a big lady.To be quite honest me & my family love to race & there are a lot of great people at the races,i just hope these issues can be sorted out
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 9:01 AM

Posted by syG:

dnanyW eno eciN

Net jammer my naam klink nie so goed in Klingon nie
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 9:11 AM

Posted by Cathy:

Sorry Dave you didn't ask!
Nevermind - your son is leading the inland anyway so what's the problem?
No need to sort out issues - no 80cc next year.
Have fun stirring in the 100cc's !!!(Hope you don't have spacers now?!!)
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 10:05 AM

Posted by Dave:

Cathy: You are forcing me out of retirement,but i must say the lem is an awesome little machine.Regarding spacers i had extra long ones installed with extra long spikes (and i thought smoking was addictive)
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 10:34 AM

Posted by MIKE:

Gys,as I said to you,you have a tough job setting rules.We do not envy you,but appreciate your effort.My suggestion was made in the interest of the class,costs and competitiveness.No price mentioned.I say no more on this.
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 10:59 PM

Posted by Gys:

Mike , sorry , not meant as an personnal attack. I hope it is not me you are sqeezing
Wednesday, August 31st 2005 @ 11:24 PM

Posted by MIKE:

Not taken personal.That is my hands around your neck,but you can get lucky at dadgonnagetlucky@mymomshouse.co.za.Don"t say I don"t look after my mates.
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 1:20 AM

Posted by Gys:

Thanks
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 1:25 AM

Posted by BomberBoy:

Hi there Guys, Some inetresting comments coming through. I can not tell you what a huge success the Intermediate Quad Class was this past weekend in Cape Town. Why dont you UpCountryBrothers strap your bikes to trailers, climb in your cars and come to Cape Town:o to race with us next weekend at Killarney. We would really like that. And if you need any help with the Intermediate Quad Class concept please dont hesitate to contact me on greg@extremesport.co.za and i will tell you how we plan to not let this class get corrupted and abused!!!!
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 8:21 AM

Posted by Gys:

Clive , please contact him , great idea , lets just get the way to do it right
Tx
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 9:08 AM

Posted by BOESMAN:

go johannes gysbertus swem.yes rules are rules.they there for reasons.obey them!i think as for classes creating all the stock classes wont make the sport grow,it will make a race day even longer than now with more classes less riders per class??yes it would draw more people but please explain who and how the stock classes gonna be regulated??it is funny how fathers say others are cheating but always to scared to protest!!dinli,go-kart,revo,viper:we all will be competitve!maybe we'll see how competitive we are against the yanks one day.job well done to IDTCC officials!next year just bigger and better.
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 9:42 AM

Posted by ET:

I still think that we could've had a lekker meeting discussing all these issues at one of the inland meetings. Man, I wanted to be the "chairman" and we could've had MSA (or reps) answering questions, meeting the Who's of the z and get everything on paper - officially. Maybe I must go back to the army - I sound like army...
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 10:20 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Boesman, one line of thought is that maybe people for the likes of yourself,Graham Singer,Rici,Rui can give some input on how to control this,lay down some rules and maybe get involved with scruteneering,afterall you are the gay's I mean guys that know all the tricks in the book.
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 11:26 PM

Posted by Wynand:

How about a rule that can at random or by the decision of the clerk of the cource, impound a bike after a race to be checked over. But it will have to be able to even happen between heats because I think if you are well rehearsed you can change a barrel and piston on a Blaster or 100 in less than 5 min's
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 11:39 PM

Posted by Wynand:

Clive your clock seems to suggest that all of us sit infront of the computer at ungodly hours of day or night, for the record it is now 08:50 AM on the 2nd September 2005.
Cheers
Thursday, September 1st 2005 @ 11:51 PM

Posted by ray:

really people you can moan alot holly crap... let us just ride.... i mean its just a sport you not racing for $ or any thing just a small trophy... leave the kids let them ride... its not always the bike it also the rider 80% of the time.....!! they still small.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 12:04 AM

Posted by normanb:

I like the idea of our experts being involved in keeping things honest, but they have their own worries on race day. It's up to us as parents to play by the rules and to protest when appropriate.

Only once we have protested, should we rely on Boesman and co.to provide technical assistance.

We cannot abdicate this responsibility to the track officals at scrutineering time.

The other idea that I did like was a random check. Each rider puts his hand in a bag after every heat and stands a 1:20 chance of collecting a black ball.

Even easier would be to polygraph the Dads randomly. If dad fails, open up the quad.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 12:19 AM

Posted by MIKE:

Rules are rules and they will never suit all,but this is the first year and I say the people behind the scenes have done a great job.There will be a few rules changed,added, and I trust they will be for the right reasons and the inland will get better.So to all those behind the scenes,taking the flak,you are all doing a great job and we all appreciate your effort.Remember,suggestions are exactly that,not criticism.

As for the stock classes,yes it will need to be regulated,but a good starting point is ourselves and our own integrity.Are we really prepared to put ourselves and our precious KIDS through the disgrace and embarrasment when you are caught cheating.How will you explain that to your innocent kid.Often we think a bike is cheated instead of giving the kid credit for the effort he has put in and the time he has spent on the track.

Yes we all want to win,but lets do it as per the rules and our conscience,thinking of our kids integrity,if we don"t have.
A honest last is better than a cheated first,and your kid still enjoyed competing.
I like the idea of random checks without protests.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 12:29 AM

Posted by Goigen:

suggestion for bone stock class: (lil costly but good in the long run)

however many number of riders there are, we get the same number of quads for them (either sponsored or monthly contributions paid by the riders, etc) so lets say we got 10 riders who are interested in racing, we need ten quad (for this sake we'll use blasters)
so: 10 riders, ten bione stock off the showroom floor blasters with nerf bars and kill switches std and spacers all thru, each one exactly the same, dynoed before delivery by the supplying dealer to get them all pushing more or less the same hp.
rite, now before the racing on race day, after pilots briefing, the riders of this class stay behind (no need for scrutineering as a seperate group takes care of this ie: track or nominated bunch)
the riders do a 'hand in bag draw' to choose the quad they will be riding for the day. obviously the quads are numbered differently so each race day brings about a different quad and different rider each time..... after the racing the quads get locked away (no rider or riders parent takes it home to work on as they wont know if the will get the same one at the next race meeting)

i know theres a lot more to it than this but jus a suggestion maybe that can clear up this whole debate going on
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 12:32 AM

Posted by normanb:

Ray, thanks for the constructive comments and demonstrating your obviously keen understanding of the topic.

How do you get to 80%?

Do you have any idea what goes on in a kids mind when he knows he is a good as the next rider, but because some the competition has an unfair advantage, he will never compete for the lead?

Racing is about:
Fun, building self confidence, building appreciation for ones equipment, self discipline, Fun, mechanical aptitude, ability to handle extreme dissapointment, ability to handle extreme elation, fun, fun, fun.

And you thought it was about a small trophy!

I think that the debate could be summarised by saying that there is a need for a class where there are clear rules that are enforced and adhered to so that yougsters can be exposed to all the benefits of racing at a reasonable cost.

I have committed myself to putting my money where my mouth is next season if I have a reasonable suspiscion of rules being broken.

Mike makes a very important point. We often give credit to a modded quad, rather than the kids ability. I know I have done.

I would like nothing more than to see the real talent coming out and knowing that the top riders are there on their own merits.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:04 AM

Posted by Gys:

Tx Mike. Integrity in racing by everybody ? My problem with a stock class and Clive's excellent suggestion for the intermediate class will flop everytime due to the lack of it. The only way to control it is by the other riders and dad's.Like you said , the day a junior quad is sighted and it is wrong , I dont to be near. That will brake your kid's heart and loose your face for fore-ever.Goigen do have a good idea. Problem - money.Very few people can afford to have a bike standing in a garage while your kid can't practice.

On the opening of a motor. Can't be done randomly under MSA rules , the rider must be sighted. So like I have said a 100 1000 times , if you got a problem , sight the bike.

I just wish that we can sort the problem out where the people is p*ssed of with each other when that person get sighted. People must accept it as a part of the race-day and take it as such. That person must not be p*ssed of and fight with the other guy , he must accept is as a given that his bike can be sighted. But that will never happen , will it ??????
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:07 AM

Posted by Gys:

I dont to be near
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:10 AM

Posted by Anonymous:

want
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:10 AM

Posted by ray:

yes i do... my little cousin and sister and i race...
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:10 AM

Posted by ray:

and this thing about alway sighting and crap like that!!!! please STOP!!!
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:14 AM

Posted by Goigen:

like i sed money will be an issue, cos these quads jus cant fall out the sky.

but if we get it rite, u charge the rider per race for the use of the quad and maybe a lesser fee to practise onnit at the track on an open day, the quad doesn belong to them, it will belong to the track or whoever is nominated to maintain them.
Formula one did this with their development class with the aid of a government grant, what weighting to we as riders or clubs have at MSA level to try push this?
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:15 AM

Posted by Gys:

Ray , what must I do if my kid on a stock standard gets pulled on 100m by 20m every time by the same make bike? Accept it as such ?(By the way , luckily he is not racing standards)

Goigen , unfortunately no weighting. MSA still see quad trackracing as a start level , nothing serious. That is one of the big things we had this year to change their mind. It seem's that we did actually made an impact , seeing that there are more riders on a Inland than what there are at a lot of the regional moto-x. Maybe we will make a bigger inpact in 2006 ?
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:24 AM

Posted by Goigen:

we sat with and still sit with the same crap for years in another racing discipline. they only sit up and take not wen u start making noise.......
another thing, if there is a definite class for open 2stroke next year, tell me wot is the minimum number required and i'll make sure there are at least that many riders at every Inland
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 1:32 AM

Posted by normanb:

Ray, sounds like you currently have an interest in an exceptionally fast stock 100cc. :)
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 2:04 AM

Posted by RAY:

THAT THE BUYERS PROBLEM. HE/SHE BOUGHT A CRAP BIKE.. OR YOU CAN CATCH UP ON THE TECHNICAL TRACKS... NOT SPEED NEEDED, ITS THE RIDER ADVANTAGE.....AND THEY KIDS THEY DONT EVEN REALLY UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE THING ABOUT WINNING... IF THE KID DOES NOT WIN DADDY MAKES THE BIKE FAST AND THEN BY THE TIME THE GET ONTO A 450 DADDYS GOT ON MONEY...SO LET THEM RIDE AND ENJOY?!
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 2:28 AM

Posted by Cape Quaddie:

In Cape Town we don't run any stock or modified classes - for just this reason, our classes are age rated and cc rated. Someone has to check at the end of the day and nobody wants that job cause we all know what SOME parents are like. Anyway with regards to our Intermediate Class - what a great success, for the first time at MX in Cape Town there were more quaddies than tweelies - awesome. The nice thing is everyone really enjoyed themselves and it gave the top riders like Porno and Tony a chance to cheer their mates on. Close racing and definately a spectator pleaser...Come to Killarney on the 10 September and check it out - you will luv it. :P:P:P
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 2:34 AM

Posted by RAY:

HEY CAPE QUADDER WAT KINDA TRACK IS THERE???
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 3:16 AM

Posted by TANIA:

NO FOOD ON THE TABLE IF ALL OF YOU SIT IN FRONT OF THE COMPUTER THE WHOLE DAY.

GYS JY'T JAAREINDE
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 3:19 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Gys I went through the famous MSA "WIT BOEK" but could not find the rule regarding sighting in the QUAD SECTION, in fact I could not find the QUAD SECTION
then Zelda told me there is no QUAD SECTION then I said to her that Mike and you and others are talking about the RULES so how can there not be a MSA QUAD SECTION we pay them and are always told ,MSA RULE!! so she told me to shut up and mind my own bussiness, so I did.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 4:08 AM

Posted by clive:

Wynand, the time thing is because this page is hosted in the USA. Interesting reading the comments .... instead of ensuring new faces on the track, anyone who is contemplating starting will be scared off, on reading this.

Most of the issues bugging here is actually because of class restrictions. The restrictions seem to be the problem, not the solution, because everyone wants somebody else to to do the policing. The other classes that have no restrictions are conspicuous by their absence.

Gys, information on that other idea is coming.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 4:15 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Just one more question Why can't you under MSA rules put 8 spoke wheels instead of 10 spoke wheels on ox wagons that was the main reason Paul Kruger lost the 2nd Wagenpadspruit race to Rustenburg but then again "MSA RULES".
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 4:30 AM

Posted by Gys:

Wynand ,
Die osse op die 8 speke was vinniger , hulle was op racing kos en het groter outlet exhausts gehad wat nie in 1874 se race toegelaat was nie.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 4:42 AM

Posted by Tash:

Just wanted to have the 100th comment!!!:)
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 5:01 AM

Posted by Gys:

Nice 1 Tash
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 5:39 AM

Posted by normanb:

Ray, I think you are on the same page as the rest of us in the end. You just skipped a few pages in the beginning and middle of the book. Cu
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 6:17 AM

Posted by RAY:

FROM QUADS TO WAGONS WATS THIS WORLD COMING TO?/????
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 7:10 AM

Posted by Gys:

It is a metaphor
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 8:05 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Ray, it just seems as if MSA are not keeping up with the times We (as in my bunch) have been racing for 3 yrs now and they still haven't made room for quads in their rules and regs. The MSA rules most likely date back to the days of the ox wagon, the sooner MSA cease to exist the better it would be for motor sport. We pay lots of money to be members (not by choice) and we don't get nothing in return. A new body that are not just arseholes sitting rings on chairs must be formed so we can get on with the real stuff.
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 9:13 AM

Posted by nona Syg:

Ditto. And Ray , take your finger of the ? . You are making the web-page to big. And that is what this whole page is about - comments
Friday, September 2nd 2005 @ 10:35 AM

Posted by RAY:

IM MAKING IT TO BIG??? LOOK AT ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE WRITING?? A BUNCH OF RUBBISH. AND YOU JUST WAISTED SOME SPACE BY TELLLING ME THAT!!
Saturday, September 3rd 2005 @ 1:01 AM

Posted by ray:

why is every one so quite now?
Saturday, September 3rd 2005 @ 2:02 AM

Posted by Gys:

It is Saturday , we are actually racing.
Saturday, September 3rd 2005 @ 2:54 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Don't worry Gys the question mark key on the old XT computers tend to get stuck. Pity about the Aussies!
Saturday, September 3rd 2005 @ 6:29 AM

Posted by Gys:

Dit was teen my beginsels. Ek het vir hulle geskree. Rerig. And then it all went wrong.

Die All blacks het verdien on die game te wen.

Ongelukkig.
Saturday, September 3rd 2005 @ 10:45 AM

Posted by Pierre - Wild-Thing Raceway:

Don't know where to write this but have to say.

To all the Wild-Thing Riders who went to Bloemfontein and represented the club -
A Huge thank you to each one of you and your families for the awesome support.

Boy did you do Wild-Thing proud!!!
We went and kicked butt big time.
Taking top three in every class entered.

Wild-Things you have reason to be proud and to strut your stuff - you showed real class.
Sunday, September 4th 2005 @ 10:39 AM

Posted by Dave:

Wild Thing Rules, Bloem was fun & pse mention my 10Th position!!! Regarding this forum, it is all going down hill,lets all stop using the 100cc stock class as an example. Normanb you can gladly strip my sons bike No L25 & Morne No 555. As per the modified bike good luck to her. Please go easy on the snotty remarks, would appreciate constructive & if you have verbal diarrhoea please consult a doctor.
Sunday, September 4th 2005 @ 12:20 PM

Posted by Ivanka:

This is addressed to whoever made the comment about the ferocious mothers shouting for their kids while racing. If you have a problem with me encouraging my son in a race - get earplugs & look the other way. My kid happens to want his parents interested in his sport & I'll encourage him as much as I like. He loves it! So there!!!
Sunday, September 4th 2005 @ 12:27 PM

Posted by Cape Quaddie:

What sort of track? An interesting track by far, with whoops, a huge step-up and a couple of flat table-tops. It would be great if all you wild-thing riders came and challenged the Capies. Come and have some fun. Our tracks don't hurt riders they just make them stronger and tougher.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 12:15 AM

Posted by normanb:

Dave, no snotty remarks ever intended, so sorry if there were. Just a promise for next season and if I prove to be wrong, I will be happier than anyone else. Fact is, that I cannot find anyone who believes that the top revos are still stock.

Verbal is the spoken word, I'll look up what excessive numbers of written words can like to be. Diatribe springs to mind. One can only accuse with short posts. My longer ones attempt to supply underlying reasoning as well. My next post therefore has to be dedicated to you. (ONLY because it is also long.) It was however written long before I read this post.

Rather than stripping quads, I'd like to see a reasoned response that counter-balances my stated view. There must be one if those quads still actually do qualify as stock.

By the way, I did not mean to imply anywhere that the quad apparently seen being modded belonged to a female. If it was read as such, I apologise. If you happen to know who it was, thanks for confirming.

Congats on the 10th place. I'd really like to have taken pics particularly as you guys did so well.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 12:49 AM

Posted by normanb:

100cc stock shootout

At ERORA yesterday there was an unplanned shootout in the 100cc class. Up front a modded Revo ran into the distance with a modded Dinli Helix getting closer as the day progressed.

In the field of 10, were 2 stock Dinli T-Rexs and 2 stock Revos. The Dinlis prevailed. My favorite Dinli pulled off in the top 3, but was stone last into holeshot twice and 3rd last once. At ERORA the first half of the lap is downhill and technical, and the shiny silver helmet would typically pass everyone up to 4th place before the ¾ mark.

By then they are hauling a technical section up hill and defense was required. The final corner and start / finish straight is where you can tell modded from stock. Modded 100ccs accelerate. All stock quads maintain the speed they carry into the straight.

Here a stock Revo has about 10m per 50m advantage over a Dinli T-Rex. It would appear that the Dinli can make this up in the next 3 sharp corners and attack successfully soon thereafter and gain enough advantage during the rest of the course to make it stick.

Justin ended 3rd on the day. Heat 1 4th behind the other T-rex, H 2&3 3rd behind the mods.

So to all Parents of stock Dinli’s, there is no need to sell and buy a Revo if you want your kids to compete in the stock 100cc class next year. Do get a good a good mechanical team to tune it to run as fast as it possibly can. Ignore the unleaded petrol and then winning or losing will be up to the rider.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 12:54 AM

Posted by Lara:

Were there any ladies that raced Bloem oval over the weeken?
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 4:58 AM

Posted by wouter:

Normanb

I back up what Dave has said 100% and please put your money where your mouth is and have our son’s quads stripped and hopefully this will satisfy your speculative curiosity once and for all. My family and Dave’s family as well as the club we belong to “Full Circle” particularly enjoy Wild Thing and our families appreciate all Pierre and Jill’s work put into providing such a facility. Do what you have to now as suggested and accept the outcome and move on.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 6:10 AM

Posted by normanb:

OK, I'm convinced. Where do I buy a Revo that will compete? Which shop will race prep it?

"Full Circle"? I'd like to know what this is, forgive my ignorance.

Agreed in terms of WT, no idea why you would bring Pierre and Jill in. By far the best facilty.

Great to finally hear from 2 parents after such long speculation.

I'm serious, if stock revos are really that fast, I want to buy one.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 6:34 AM

Posted by normanb:

Dave and Wouter,

The opinions that I have expressed in the past are not mine alone. They are widespread. I just got tired of nobody bringing the issue into the open.

I floated the balloon hoping to be gunned down immediately. With facts or anything. Nada.


The top riders in the 100cc stock are exceptional and in equal quads would give the modded 100cc's a go.

It is such a shame that if it is their efforts alone that are making the difference, then they need the full credit, not the quad.

I've seen what my boy can do to a Revo that is out of the box. Where can I go to get him a quad that will give him the same pull away and top end as yours?

Hell, I'd like nothing better than to put this matter to rest and have Justin competing with your kids next year.

Norman
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 6:51 AM

Posted by Wynand:

At least a new line was created for beauty pageants on this website.

Q.Who is your favourite person? A.Pierre and Jill. Q. What do you want for the future. A. World peace and no cheating in the 100's
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 7:02 AM

Posted by normanb:

Wahahahaha

World Peace. At least we have a shot at that. hehehehe
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 7:14 AM

Posted by Gys:

What about me ?
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:00 AM

Posted by Dave:

Syg: we are talking about a beauty pageant,you are not allowed to enter Sorry.
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:06 AM

Posted by clive:

No Pierre & Jill = no Wild Thing Raceway = sucky weekend = impounded quads. Ag no man, as far as I'm concerned they should have got Jacob Zuma's job jointly.
But let's also remember, some things, like world peace, are remtely possible. Others not
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:08 AM

Posted by clive:

Imagine Wynand as an umbrella girl
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:10 AM

Posted by Dave:

Thats a scary thought now i'm going to have nightmares
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:13 AM

Posted by normanb:

My camera is not insured for shots like that ;)
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:24 AM

Posted by Dave:

Lets all club in and buy him a leopard print g-string
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:38 AM

Posted by Gys:

That will be very nice. I will feel apreceiated
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 8:59 AM

Posted by Wouter:

Normanb

Yes, you have been floating the “balloon” for a long time and yes, we did not respond. The reason – didn’t want to get into a mudslinging contest with anyone when we have nothing to hide also considering this is our children we are talking about.

You say that the opinions that you expressed in the past are not yours alone and that they are widespread. Yours are the only opinions we have read on the website although you say they are widespread? Who are these people who feel that there is so much cheating going on in the 100cc standard class? There are not many parents whose children compete in this class, so we are curious as to know who these people are!

The opinions that are in fact widespread is the fact that the 100cc standard class has become an unpleasant event to facilitate. Our children competing in this class are starting to ask questions about all this unpleasantness and can you imagine how bad they feel when we as parents have to tell them that some people insinuate that their wins are due to their quad’s engines being modified and not their skill!

My son, one of the first riders to compete in the 100cc standard class this year, has achieved his current top position with a Viper with a lesser cc than an Dinli or a Revo. Only in the last two oval races and one flat track race, has he been riding with a “out of the box” standard Revo (which by the way, has not even been for its first service!).

You say that you don’t want to upset the “applecart” by protesting this year – we feel that this is unfair on our children as you continue to insinuate that their quads are modified. Therefore, we now request you to protest any 100cc standard quads you may feel are modified, including our son’s quad, to lay this unpleasantness to rest. As our son is in the top 3 on both tracks, we will not be upset should you do so.

To end this comment, lets all be big enough to enjoy, as many of us have been doing, a good days
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 10:15 AM

Posted by Wouter:

To end this comment, lets all be big enough to enjoy, as many of us have been doing, a good days race where sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t and sometimes it takes half a season to get anywhere.

PS: Seeing as I am ALWAYS last in the 450cc Vets class, I wish to protest all the vets quads, as something very unfair is going on!
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 10:17 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Stop making fun of me, anorexia is bad enough and in my case the mis managed anorexia is worse and it is contagious so beware "ek soen oopmond"
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 10:39 AM

Posted by Dave:

Wynand: we all know that you are a beauty queen in disguise & we worried about your anorexia
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 11:38 AM

Posted by normanb:

Wouter. I hear you and respect both you and Dave tremendously as well as the capabilities of your kids.

Nobody has yet offered a logical explanation, on or off-line as to the reasons for such a huge speed differential between the top quads and the rest. I have asked numerous people in the broader community how we could compete with a stock Dinli or Revo.

Nobody tells me it is just down to the rider and nobody can tell me what more we can do to legally to get similar speed. (Even for a new revo)

If you tell me it is just the rider, I'll take your word for it and retract every inference ever made.

I will also seriously consider buying a stock Revo with my bonus at the end of the year and help silence any other critics. (Suject only to MSA rules and classes /age groups - stock blaster being the other option)

Fact is our Dinli drilled a new Revo as well as the local Dirtboyz Revo that has intimate track knowlege. Things do not add up. At WT the front runners just haul into the distance up the start finish straight long before any skill comes into it. Bad start or not they hit the front. Do you really think I am the only one puzzled by this phenomenon?

The modded Revo this weekend had a similar lead to that which we are used to at WT.

In the face of everything that does not add up and no logical explanation, I am prepared to accept your word as the final say. An explanation would help, but it is not necessary.

We'll continue to farm at the bottom of the field, until December and then get a Revo, or make sure next season starts on equal footing.

Where should I go for the Revo?
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 12:22 PM

Posted by Wynand:

Norman I have bought all my Revo's from DNA motorcycles and I only got good service, You can talk to Dean or Mark just make sure you don't buy the one with reverse as this is just an extra gear that must be turned by the motor, or you can talk to me I might just have one or two "lekker los" reverted back to standard Revo's towards the end of the year.(I must just find out what STANDARD is )
Monday, September 5th 2005 @ 11:33 PM

Posted by normanb:

Wynand, thanks a mil. I'd be happy to take over one of yours at the end of the season. I've also had advice from other folk as to where I can get a competative 100cc quad. I'll also visit DNA to see what I'll be in for if it is to be a new prepped Revo.

Justin is riding out of his skin, whether he is last or third and I owe it to him get him on level terms with the best.

In the meantime, he is learning so much chasing the impossible, that he should have an advantage. Heck last weekend he overtook, 18 or 19 times in 3 heats and defended all but once.

You can't do that if you power your way to the front in the first 30m.
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 3:05 AM

Posted by BULLDOG:

TO YOUR COMMENT ON OPEN 2 STROKES (GOIGEN) ALL FOR THAT LET US KNOW THE NUMBERS CAUSE LIKE WE ALL KNOW NOTHING RIDES LIKE A BANSHEE MAYBE THATS WHY THERE ARE SO LITTLE ENTRIES.
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 7:21 AM

Posted by Goigen:

Gys, please can u clarify the minimum numbers need , we got to get ourselves (open 2strokes) sorted. and from the looks of it, the U/17 class is gonna be very small next year....

Bulldog, glad u cood join us mate, know how u feel, also pity bout the okes who come to oval who skip the flat track events, banshee's were made to fly
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 7:39 AM

Posted by Wynand:

Come on Goigen,Bulldog get organised I've got two banshees that's very "lus" for racing.
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 9:41 AM

Posted by MIKE:

Tash,get ready to have the 150th comment.
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 9:57 AM

Posted by Goigen:

Mr van der Linde, if i know for defs that there will be an open 2stroke class seperate for next year, i will as i sed go out on a limb to get at least 6 at every event: Kobus Ferreira, Ettiene Schourie, Steven Schourie, Deon Edwards, Johan Klopper, Raymond Cloete, Shaun X (BansheeS), ur two banshees (PW and Alwyn i assume) and myself..... that makes 10 olreddy.... come on guys we can have such an amazing class!
Tuesday, September 6th 2005 @ 10:41 PM

Posted by normanb:

What a field! With 1st 1st 1st at the last meet, Goigen needs the competition :)
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 12:48 AM

Posted by Goigen:

my lucky day had to come sumtime.... positive frame of mind without stress does wonders
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 12:54 AM

Posted by normanb:

Most kids that get quads, soon want to race. So reverting purely to the theme of dwindling numbers and how daunting it is for newbies at our tracks, I find the following stats alarming:

In 100cc mods, the top 4 riders have participated 32 times between them. The other 12 have competed a total of 22 times.

In 100c 'stock' the top 4 competed 27 times and the rest 22 times.

Dis nie gesond nie!

The top kids in each class are so much faster than the rest that I doubt that many new riders would graduate from a newbie class.

Would this kill the current classes?

Tash: 150 is coming ;)
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 1:11 AM

Posted by normanb:

Also congrats on working out how to cut down on lap times a bit as well.

Looking forward to seeing you flying as you lighten the back pocket. :)
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 1:16 AM

Posted by Goigen:

nothing major..... routine service and maybe the new wheel bearings will shave bout a second or 2 off hahahahaha
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 1:19 AM

Posted by normanb:

Wahahahaha

Now here's the thing. We know that your honour was held intact because no Blasters overtook you last race, but if they raise their game slightly, you would be under pressure. 350cc stock vs maxed out Blasters with seriously talented riders may not be enough to keep you ahead. Time to up the cc's mate.
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 1:47 AM

Posted by Tash:

Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 1:49 AM

Posted by Goigen:

damn!!! Tash beat me to it!!

before i spend any $$$ on upping anything i wanna see if we up for next year
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 2:03 AM

Posted by normanb:

A lady beat you in cyberspace, even if you don't have an open 2-stroke class, you could enter the ladies races. Might not win, but you won't be last.
Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 2:18 AM

Posted by Goigen:

Wednesday, September 7th 2005 @ 2:23 AM

Posted by Lara:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA normanb, love your comment
Thursday, September 8th 2005 @ 6:18 AM

Posted by Goigen:

eish, issit 'thump Goigen day' today?
Thursday, September 8th 2005 @ 6:28 AM

Posted by normanb:

Sorry Goigs, but I do think there are at least 2 ladies (present company included)that will drill you unless you spend more on your sheeeeeeeee.

Lets face it, I don't think that there is a vet that would dare challenge our top ladies at WT either.

heheheheee
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 12:53 AM

Posted by Goigen:

i ........errr, ok,u almost drew me to comment on that, is there a Big Torque section here?
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 12:57 AM

Posted by Anonymous:

norman norman norman
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 1:33 AM

Posted by Lara:

normanb... you make my day :):)
HEHEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHAHa
Laugh oiu loud o:)
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 2:33 AM

Posted by normanb:

OK, it's the end of the week and it seems as if everyone has gone to sleep.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 2:34 AM

Posted by Goigen:

well we gettign ready for the weekend, dreaming of riding our quads on the track
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 2:59 AM

Posted by Anonymous:

:)
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 4:32 AM

Posted by Anonymous:

you guys sure do take the kiddies racing seriously............... !
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 4:32 AM

Posted by Dave:

Eugene & Wouter will challenge all the ladies at WT (they said that the ladies can have half a lap head start)
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 6:09 AM

Posted by Dave:

Sorry i forgot to mention Goigen as well.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 6:34 AM

Posted by Eugene,Wouter & Goigen:

Are the ladies scared
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 6:39 AM

Posted by Goigen:

i'd love to accept the challenge but have u seen women drive cars? i do value my life
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 6:47 AM

Posted by clive:

Phewooe, you guys are stirring up a storm and you might have to do some cleaning up
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 6:48 AM

Posted by Dave:

I think you ladies should teach the 3 musketers a lesson (Just a thought take out extra life insurance)
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:13 AM

Posted by Goigen:

medical aid covers dangerous activities.....that include looking for nonsense with the fairer sex?

so whose placing bets on who?
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:27 AM

Posted by Goigen:

forgot this
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:28 AM

Posted by Anonymous (Dave):

My name is Anonymous the reason is that i am Anonymous, is because i forgot my name
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:29 AM

Posted by Dave:

Coigen: What medical aid are you on, i must say you guy's are brave to sacrifice leg & limb.Wynand & Gys will be the umbrella girls. (Girls teach them a lesson )
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:43 AM

Posted by Dave:

Is there a lady racer out there that can show me how to do the s/up please.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:44 AM

Posted by Eugene:

Thought so. Cannot ask the men to show you, rather stick with the girlies Davelina.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:48 AM

Posted by Goigen:

we challenged the ladies cos we look up to them and wood like them to teach us a thing or two or twelve.....
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:48 AM

Posted by Dave:

Eugene who let you out of the old age home
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:50 AM

Posted by Andre:

Good idea Eugene, Daveline must enter with the ladies next race. Pack your leopard g-string as well Davey boy.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:57 AM

Posted by Eugene:

Listen Dave age wise you are not far behind me. Saw you the other day in the old age tea room removing your uppers to suck on the marie biscuit.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 7:59 AM

Posted by Dave:

Eugene & Wouter i can't believe it your little boy is talking already [S.impsonHomer]
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:01 AM

Posted by Anonymous:

Daveline, leave Eugene and Wouter and their son (Andre) alone you were warned previously %^&*$%&*
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:05 AM

Posted by Anonymous is jimmy:

watch it.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:05 AM

Posted by Dave:

Why is it so quite,they must be having there soup & marie biscuits
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:30 AM

Posted by Innocent observer:

This Dave or Daveline ouke seems to be causing a lot of trouble with Eugene, Wouter, Andre. If I were you 3 ouke’s I will hoopie him the next time you see him
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:42 AM

Posted by Wouter:

Innocent observer

What a good idea, well done. Brace yourself David!
:P
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:45 AM

Posted by Eugene:

Good idea, brace yourself David.:-?
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:46 AM

Posted by Andre:

Excellent idea, brace yourself David.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:47 AM

Posted by Jimmy:

Why so quiet David?
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 8:49 AM

Posted by Real Real Dave Really:

I cant believe some shady character is using my name, you guys(girls)are the best
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 9:00 AM

Posted by Eugene, Wouter, Andre:

Try all you want Davey, the hoopie is still on.
Friday, September 9th 2005 @ 9:13 AM

Posted by Dave:

THe vets class would like to welcome a new rider to our ranks: The very talented Mr Mike.His debut will be the oval on 17/09/05 His speciality is f/track.(Bloem s/up )
Sunday, September 11th 2005 @ 7:43 PM

Posted by MIKE:

Dave,you had to.Sorry Dave,I will be joining the ladies class,they have a lot more class and the goons to do a step up.
Monday, September 12th 2005 @ 7:48 AM

Posted by normanb:

Vets vs Ladies.

It would be nice to see a once off race after the last tweelie race where 3 ladies took on 3 Vets. Total Points scored = winning team.

Only Vets who have been regular contributors to this forum, may enter.

Now that would be a race.
Monday, September 12th 2005 @ 10:20 AM

Posted by Goigen:

wot bout a fathers race, father's of junior and senior competitors who haven't raced at all in this year, to partake in a fun race against each other
Monday, September 12th 2005 @ 10:31 AM

Posted by Goigen:

i know Mr F is grinning
Monday, September 12th 2005 @ 10:32 AM

Posted by BULLDOG(700):

Would like big mouth Lara and the rest of her back in the womens 450 class to stand up and take note of the banshee boys comment of a race of mixed class between us (no wet track)but you would not do that lets get this on baby.Please 450"s not take your time to resond this being on the oval track this Saturday .A nd to show just how confident i am i have not even asked the other 350 kings yet simply cause it is not something we actualy worry about.:):P:)
Monday, September 12th 2005 @ 10:48 AM

Posted by normanb:

Much as those of us who qualify will enjoy it, I fear that the crowds would go home. Specially when we ride around the step-up. :)

The winner of the Vets vs ladies could then challenge open 2-Strokes the following race day.

Next would be the open 200cc.

Another race I'd pay to see is Open vs Junior 450's.

With the season widing down surely we could pick the teams and have a seperate day of fun.

Goigens got his eye on 200. My money is on Ta